EMDR Remedy and Psychological Well being Assist with Susie Morgan, LMFT, BCETS

Betty Rocker (00:15):

What’s up, Rockstars Coach Betty Rocker right here, and I’m actually glad you might be right here too. In some unspecified time in the future, you’ll have heard me discuss a sort of remedy that I used referred to as EMDR, which stands for Eye Motion Desensitization and Reprocessing. And it’s actually recognized for its skill to deal with PTSD and traumatic occasions. There’s a variety of completely different sorts of therapeutic practices on the market, and with regards to our psychological well being, it’s actually vital to discover a good match and the fitting instruments for addressing our particular person considerations so we will dwell extra full and significant lives. After going via a very tough interval of my very own life and being recognized with nervousness and melancholy, one of many suggestions I used to be given was to hunt EMDR remedy.

(01:02)
I’ll share a bit extra about my expertise with it on the present at this time as a result of the individual I’ve introduced to speak to us is the wonderful therapist I labored with, and I’m actually excited so that you can meet her. She actually helped me change my mind and my life. Susie Morgan is a licensed marriage and household therapist, board licensed knowledgeable in trauma stress, and an authorized EMDR therapist specializing within the remedy of advanced PTSD and attachment trauma. Along with her apply, she’s additionally an E-M-D-R-I-A accredited advisor and coach, and the founding father of the Precision EMDR Academy, a boutique coaching company that equips and mentors clinicians to offer secure and efficient EMDR remedy. She is devoted to offering each a excessive degree of care in her personal therapeutic apply and advancing the excellence within the discipline of EMDR. I felt that she was uniquely geared up to share extra about EMDR with us and provide you with a way of what it’s used for, who may profit from it, and what sort of issues it treats, and the way to discover and vet an important practitioner. So be part of me in welcoming her to the present. Welcome, Susie. It’s so nice to have you ever right here with me. Thanks a lot for being right here.

Susie Morgan (02:22):

Thanks for having me. That is completely my honor, so thanks.

Betty Rocker (02:26):

Oh my gosh. Properly, I’ve been so excited to have a dialog about EMDR so that individuals would find out about it, individuals who’ve perhaps heard about it could get extra conversant in it, as a result of I really feel prefer it’s kind of, it’s a more recent apply with regards to the therapeutic arts within the better scheme of remedy. Is that appropriate?

Susie Morgan (02:51):

Sure and no, as a result of that’s somewhat little bit of a false impression as a result of it’s actually been round since 1987. And so what which means is that regardless that it’s not as outdated as clearly like Freudian remedy and people actually conventional fashions or cognitive behavioral, it, it isn’t new. And so it’s, it truly has had loads of time to really develop out an extremely strong, like encyclopedia of analysis, not solely displaying that it treats PTSD, but in addition a variety of different issues that individuals can current with. And so it’s truly a false impression that it’s new, it’s simply newer that individuals find out about it and

Betty Rocker (03:34):

Newer that individuals find out about it. Properly, would perhaps, like I ought to ask the primary query, which is, what does EMDR stand for and what does it particularly deal with? As a result of I feel that’s actually attention-grabbing. It’s, it’s very distinctive within the therapeutic arts.

Susie Morgan (03:50):

Okay. So the, the inventor of EMDR would’ve renamed it. She mentioned if she had had an opportunity, however by the point it was extra well-known and being researched, she was like, okay, that is what it’s referred to as. So it stands for eye motion desensitization and reprocessing. And so let me break that down. So it makes use of eye motion. Historically, you should use different means to permit for the, the mind to mainly replicate what occurs throughout REM sleep, we expect with a purpose to truly reconsolidate reminiscences. And so you should use different duties, different bilateral varieties of motion with, with tactile and even tones with a purpose to create this impact. In order that’s the attention motion a part of it. It’s utilizing this particular bilateral, units of actions with a purpose to stimulate the mind to enter right into a reminiscence reconsolidation mode. After which the desensitization and reprocessing are the 2 issues that it’s doing.

(04:53)
What it’s doing is it’s taking the activation of those reminiscences and desensitizing that. So taking, taking the cost out of it, taking that chew out of the reminiscence, after which it’s reprocessing it. So it’s truly connecting it as much as adaptive info and adaptive info. Is that this actuality based mostly or soothing or, optimistic info that claims it’s over and actually undoes the training and connects it as much as what truly the mind already is aware of. However when a reminiscence is maladaptively saved, it doesn’t soak up the entire context of issues. It doesn’t soak up the truth that issues are over or that in reality, regardless that you already know it’s true, prefer it doesn’t really feel true. So it it, it connects all that up.

Betty Rocker (05:39):

What’s the eye motion a part of eye motion desensitization reprocessing? Is your eye simply going forwards and backwards otherwise you snapping your fingers? What’s occurring? Is there lights?

Susie Morgan (05:49):

So through the years, devices have been invented and since mainly the secret’s you are attempting to have that shopper’s eyes trip throughout the sector division as quickly as they will bodily tolerate whereas holding the reminiscence materials in thoughts. And so you may have somebody, holding a, you already know, a set of buzzers of their fingers that mild up and so they can look forwards and backwards between the lights. The buzzing can also be another that permits there to be a tactile degree of stimulation for that forwards and backwards in order that, individuals who can’t use their eyes for this course of truly can have an efficient type of bilateral stimulation. There are eye, like, like eye motion machines the place mainly you may, you may observe a lightweight bar forwards and backwards, or there’s like these packing containers you may maintain that may trigger your lights to return, trigger your eyes to trip as you observe the lights.

(06:49)
There are laptop packages which have somewhat bouncing ball that trip, however backside line is you don’t want machines. You simply want some mechanism for eyes to trip. So I do, I do EMDR on-line on a regular basis now with none equipment in anyway, with none particular packages. I simply have individuals pinching their fingers forwards and backwards with their eyes held a couple of shoulder width aside. They observe their very own pinches, and that produces the efficient eye motion. However mainly what we’ve proven in analysis is that eye motion is the best method to create the reminiscence reconsolidation course of that we’re in search of. Nevertheless, these different strategies tactile and, an auditory can produce the same degree, however there does appear to be greater than, extra at play than simply that your eyes are going forwards and backwards. There’s, there’s the chance that that’s, activating a rem like mechanism of sleep.

(07:48)
We see chemical, chemical, comparable chemical substances produced within the mind, comparable brainwaves. It additionally seems that work taxing working reminiscence is without doubt one of the explanation why it’s efficient. It’s not as comfy, it’s not as enjoyable to have to really like, like do a elaborate patterning together with your fingers when you have the buzzing or matching your eye actions together with your pinches. However that truly causes the tough reminiscence materials to metabolize sooner. However for those who overtax working reminiscence, you lower on that reprocessing portion. So it’s, there’s form of a candy spot, and it’s completely different for every individual on how a lot, how onerous we wish them to work whereas they’re doing the bilateral processing.

Betty Rocker (08:35):

What’s a, what’s a very good instance of a maladaptive reminiscence that somebody may need that was not connecting? Proper? Or what occurs in, in remedy?

Susie Morgan (08:46):

So an instance of a, a trauma reminiscence can be a canine chew. So somewhat woman, she’s in her entrance yard, A canine comes by, bites her. There’s two methods the mind can go along with that. One we might name maladaptive. One we might name adaptive. And so it, it, and the distinction is how does the reminiscence find yourself being saved by the mind, which components of the mind are concerned? And so if it’s maladaptively saved, it will get at, it will get saved in nearly like this authentic kind. Like all the, the visible sight sounds feels of that second are identical to encapsulated in time. And so she will be 30 years outdated and it feels prefer it occurred yesterday when she thinks of it. So it, it shops scorching within the visible cortex of the mind, the emotional cortex of the mind. And the attention-grabbing factor is the logical components of the mind that claims it’s over, you’re secure now. That kind of factor. The, that entire piece of the mind doesn’t even come on-line. So it’s all sight sounds, feels, and feelings, and it’s scorching and it’s saved that approach fairly than it’s over, I’m secure. It occurred a very long time in the past. Now I do know that, you already know, you must, you already know, form of just remember to don’t simply pet a canine. You don’t know , that form of factor,

Betty Rocker (10:10):

Proper? So, so the expertise that an individual would have who had these two completely different storages of the reminiscence is one little woman could be afraid of canine without end as a result of that reminiscence’s at all times burning brilliant and burning scorching with all of that saved stuff the place the opposite little woman who’s,  it’s not saved in a detrimental approach. She simply is extra cautious in approaching canine the place the opposite woman could be afraid to strategy a canine in that sense. Yeah. So the, the trauma impacts how we behave in several methods transferring ahead is what you’re saying

Susie Morgan (10:40):

In that kind of adaptive versus maladaptive piece. Adaptive is, I’m secure now on a really primary degree and I can preserve myself secure now, or it’s, I’m not secure. And so the physique goes in a combat or flight, if something reminds the nervous system of that incident. And there’s truly three varieties of trauma I consider that actually, actually matter. And so it’s very a lot increasing out the definition of the phrase in a, in a approach that I feel is essential as a result of there’s so many individuals who say, effectively, I don’t have trauma. I wasn’t at battle, I wasn’t assaulted, that form of factor. So, so EMDR remedy isn’t for me or considering of myself as having trauma that I would wish to reprocess via that might be affecting my signs.  That simply doesn’t, that simply doesn’t come of their conceptualization

Betty Rocker (11:30):

Certain.

Susie Morgan (11:31):

Of what they’re coping with, and subsequently it stops them from getting assist they may get. So the three varieties of trauma that I feel are actually vital to know are that massive T trauma. In order that’s classically what we perceive as, yeah, blood hearth battle assault, that’s what that’s conceptualized as. Then you will have, little t traumas or what are hostile life occasions. And these are issues that typically individuals, you already know, another person may have a look at that and be like, effectively, that’s no massive deal. So that is like bullying. Or it’s issues like, you already know, somebody, somebody being a jerk at work or somebody calling you a reputation on the playground or your sister leaving you out, like that form of factor. So, so these are your little, little to your hostile life occasions. However truly what’s much more essential, I feel, is knowing advanced with advanced, developmental trauma, which is extra frequent than you may assume, is when early attachment wants aren’t met.

(12:32)
And, or then if there’s additionally some abuse or issues like that in these early years that it, that’s actually truly what can create the longest and most pervasive points with nervousness, melancholy, all kinds of issues that we simply consider like, oh, these are psychological well being points, when truly, if we return, we’re trying on the absence of attunement and even the absence of play, which is attention-grabbing. The absence of safety. This, you already know, simply not having the steering you want, like the way to shave your legs, the way to cope with a, a bully peer. Like all of those completely different items actually make a distinction within the skill of that individual’s nervous system to face up to the stressors that may come. And so oftentimes when these kind of developmental early attachment wants aren’t met, then you will have extra of a, of a susceptibility for the mind to maladaptively maintain these later occasions. So it’s, it’s actually tough.

Betty Rocker (13:38):

Properly, not, I feel you defined it fantastically in order that the three varieties, there’s the massive Ts, there’s the, the little ts, that are, what did you name them? Opposed occasions. After which there’s additionally the attachment points. And, and attachment principle is totally fascinating. I keep in mind that you really helpful the e book connected to me years in the past, and it was so useful in a, a, giving me a framework of understanding the distinction between the, anxious avoidant and the safe attachment types, that are these three attachment types. And simply saying them, it, it makes a lot sense why anxious and avoidant can be so polarized for those who guys take into consideration that. It’s so fascinating. After which how can we create safety, proper? And, and completely different points of our life. However, that was, that was actually attention-grabbing that that comes into play in, in what’s handled throughout the scope of EMDR. We wanna speak somewhat bit extra about that. ’trigger I feel that’s so attention-grabbing.

Susie Morgan (14:41):

Yeah, I’d like to as a result of it’s, it’s a lot what is available in to the workplace when individuals are saying, my relationships are simply not working mm-hmm . Or I preserve stepping into the identical kind of kind of damaging dynamic with my companions. Mm. And so, so what occurs when these early attachment wants aren’t met is somewhat nervous system is so good and so smart to kind of learn the room of the connection with their caregivers, and so they truly can learn the room otherwise with completely different caregivers relying on what, what shall be simplest for his or her must be met. And, and to contextualize this, little mammals can’t survive with out their caregivers attunement to them or their, not attunement, however with out them assembly their wants. Principally. Like little mammals die if their caregiver form of leaves them by the aspect of the street with out issues. And so people aren’t any completely different.

(15:40)
And so an toddler or a toddler or issues like that may notice if I cry extra, you come, if I cry much less, you don’t get so mad at me. That kind of factor. Mm-hmm. And so what finally ends up occurring whenever you simply have a look at anxious versus avoidant anxious is, I cry extra, you’ll come mm-hmm. Avoidant is, I cry much less, I’m extra prone to get my wants met, I’m safer right here. After which you will have these very unhappy conditions the place the, the early surroundings is so harsh and is so each neglectful of those attachment wants in addition to damaging via abuse or issues like that, that the nervous system will study. Like, okay, typically I cry louder, typically I shut down. Prefer it’s this entire like, like dance of simply to attempt to get wants met in no matter little tiny approach that they will. And the factor is, as soon as the mind locks in on this stuff, identical to trauma reminiscences, as soon as the mind locks in on these attachments methods or these variations to their en their early surroundings ring retains doing the identical factor over and again and again, whether or not or not the surroundings modifications.

(16:49)
And in the end the saddest half that I see in my, in my workplace is little nervous programs as they develop up, select most naturally what seems like dwelling. And they also’ll repeat what they, they went via once they had been small, considering they’re doing one thing completely different, however then touchdown in the identical kind of of relationship. After which, after which concluding, I’m the issue. It’s as a result of I’m nugatory, I’m unlovable, or regardless of the case could be. When in the end, like that’s not the case. It’s actually simply that their nervous system doesn’t know the way to do one thing completely different. In order that’s the actually cool stuff we will do with superior abilities with EMDR remedy isn’t just resolve these reminiscences. Like we don’t simply reprocess reminiscences. We truly can truly restore and restore the attachment system. So it’s, it’s fairly magic what’s doable and

Betty Rocker (17:44):

All of that, whether or not you might be treating trauma, reminiscence or attachment that’s gotten, it’s, I’m simply picturing like a rug that obtained all bunched up and Proper. It’s not, it’s not clean, whether or not you’re treating any of these various things, the, the first final result is a way of safety, a way of security within the self, a way of self that’s mm-hmm . Protected and entire and, and sufficient, proper. For thus many people who, who, you already know, search remedy. One factor that I’ve been studying quite a bit these days, and it’s so unusual as a result of we had been gonna have this dialog and I needed to ask you about it. How do we all know that the remedy that we’re doing is true for us? That’s undoubtedly a query. And, and two, like, why is it that there’s a lot remedy that simply doesn’t appear to work, I suppose like, yeah, what’s occurring with that?

Susie Morgan (18:41):

So a variety of the explanation why remedy doesn’t work is as a result of it doesn’t truly change the way in which the nervous system is working. And so what you’re doing is you’re utilizing actually what, what will be actually highly effective instruments, however it’s extra like manually shifting a automotive fairly than having driving an computerized, mainly the place it’s a must to use these abilities with a purpose to shift the mind into that adaptive functioning. So one of many issues that I feel is basically, actually vital for, for EMDR therapists to know the way to do, and it hasn’t been historically educated, however is to actually be capable of map out what are the first trauma reminiscence networks, the methods the mind has clustered collectively varied experiences, after which is working out of those maladaptive beliefs. So that you’ll have that canine chew, however then now mother is, you already know, mother is late choosing you up from daycare, and someway the mind goes, yep, I’m not secure once more.

(19:44)
Otherwise you stroll by a barking canine, who’s actually scary on the way in which to soccer apply, and the mind goes, yep, not secure once more. After which it, it’s mainly placing all these reminiscences collectively right into a cluster and saying, right here’s my proof of idea, I’m not secure. After which something that triggers that trauma, reminiscence community, lights up all of that cluster of experiences, after which the nervous system responds to that. So oftentimes a, a shopper who is available in has a number of clusters, in order that they have one cluster proving I’m not secure. Perhaps one other cluster saying I’m unlovable, one other cluster saying I don’t belong, or no matter it’s. Like it may be any number of these. And so if we now have that lay of the land, that may be actually useful for us understanding, okay, this, this, I’m not secure is linked to those panic signs, or this, I’m not lovable, is linked to those attachment kind of anxious attachment kind methods, regardless of the case could be.

(20:44)
However then we now have this different wonderful reminiscence community that every one of us have. It’s only for a few of us, it’s, it’s extra effectively developed than others. And it’s the adaptive info community. It’s all these experiences of, of, you already know, studying or of being liked or of being restored not directly, or having, you already know, a way of belonging as a part of a tradition or a part of a, you already know, a part of a non secular apply or a part of a, of a non secular group. These, these finest buddies or these, these animals that simply love us it doesn’t matter what. All of that. And I consider these as timber. So so mainly there’s, there’s one thing that planted the tree when it comes to the, these darkish trauma reminiscence networks. There’s an occasion that planted the tree, after which the tree simply grew up and obtained greater with all of these different occasions that obtained clustered collectively.

(21:37)
Properly, this, this mild tree, this adaptive info tree of knowledge additionally has, has a approach through which it was planted. That’s that early attachment system. In order that’s the trunk of that tree. And a few individuals have a spindly trunk, which suggests they’re far more vulnerable to the wind blowing after which being taken off steadiness. After which in addition they can have varied ranges of levels through which that adaptive info community has been constructed out by all of those different optimistic and experiences of resilience, experiences of success, experiences of overcoming all that jazz, so, so lengthy method to, to put the muse for the reply to your query is mainly therapies, I feel do considered one of two issues. One is they assist improve that mild tree of adaptive info. So whenever you’re studying meditation, whenever you’re studying how to think about the optimistic, the way to give attention to what’s true about you, all of that, you’re actually enhancing and specializing in that adaptive info reminiscence community.

(22:45)
And, and so there’s a lot that’s optimistic and highly effective about a variety of the therapies on the market that do this. Then there’s one other, form of kind of remedy like cognitive behavioral, the place what it’s doing is it’s, it’s permitting you to problem that activation of that detrimental reminiscence community and saying, yeah, however keep in mind it’s not true. And so that you do this, that handbook shifting via kind of logic your self into the sunshine tree. However that’s actually onerous and might really feel like gaslighting truthfully, whenever you’re like, however my nervous system says the trauma is what’s true. Not this different logic stuff that I would know in my head.

Betty Rocker (23:28):

That simply is a part of what I suppose I’ve been listening to from individuals typically once they say, you already know, speak remedy or sure varieties of speak remedy, I really feel like I’m simply rehashing these uncomfortable issues time and again with out actually getting wherever. I’m simply spinning my wheels.

Susie Morgan (23:41):

That’s one other kind of remedy. So there may be, there are varieties of remedy the place the concept is that if we now have perception or if we speak sufficient via it, you then’ll get higher. So which means you sit at midnight hint, you sit in these trauma reminiscence networks throughout trauma, the, throughout your remedy, and that’s imagined to theoretically make you’re feeling higher, however it doesn’t truly essentially do this as a result of all you’re doing is kind of dwelling within the darkness. And so individuals are like, effectively, I don’t wanna go to my previous. I wanna do these different issues. Properly, that’s nice. Now all you’re doing is manually shifting into the lightness. So what we’re in search of is one thing that truly reconsolidate the reminiscence truly shifts the, the, the, the training that’s occurred within the nervous system. And EMDR just isn’t the one present on the town that may do this. There are different therapies that truly will be efficient with reminiscence. Reconsolidation, EMDR remedy is only one the place we do get constant outcomes with that when it’s carried out correctly. And in order that’s, yeah.

Betty Rocker (24:42):

That’s, that’s the R and the EMDR, the reprocessing half. Sure. Yeah, that’s the place the mixing occurs. So I’ll share somewhat bit, that, you already know, however my listeners don’t. After I first began doing EMDR remedy with Susie, it’s been a number of years now since we did this nice work collectively, and we spent a few years doing it. I keep in mind at first I used to be like, effectively, when are we, when can we get to do the EMDR? Like, when are we gonna get to that half? And what was actually wonderful is her strategy was so considerate. She was, she went in and realized the place now I do know the lingo, after all I didn’t on the time, my clusters, she was in search of the place are the, the networks right here that I have to work with. She deliberately realized the panorama of this thoughts that she was then going to be going into with like her nice devices and serving to to reprocess.

(25:38)
Proper? So like, that was such an vital a part of that work. I feel that, that for those who don’t find out about it, you, you don’t know what you don’t know, proper? However I feel it’s so vital. And there’ve been, and there have been additionally issues that you just did at first that I’ve by no means forgotten. You gave me instruments. I keep in mind among the wonderful instruments that you just gave me to assist me have a way of safety, to have a way of security. After which after all, the precise apply of EMDR, which is so wonderful. It’s so tough to do the work typically, however it’s additionally so vital. It’s like, you already know, you guys, like whenever you do a very powerful exercise, , such as you gotta put within the work to get the consequence. However it felt like there was a real final result coming whilst I used to be going via the tough points of it.

(26:26)
And it, it, I used to attempt to clarify what it was love to do, to be an a, a affected person going via E-M-D-R, for those who guys have seen the film “Inside Out,” that is like the easiest way that I can clarify it. There’s this place that, that they go what’s, which is just like the reminiscence financial institution, and it’s all of those glowing balls of sunshine that they’ve simply stacked up and stacked up and stacked up. And so I at all times pictured just like the trauma reminiscences as like these like gnarly black balls of sunshine that, that had been like saved within the reminiscence financial institution, that, that had been truly infecting all the opposite reminiscences. As a result of that’s what occurs together with your, with the issues which are what we name maladaptive. Right. Is that proper terminology? Yeah. So the maladaptive reminiscences that didn’t truly get processed appropriately at first, these are like now infecting the remainder of your reminiscences.

(27:14)
And so you will have these reactions to issues which you could’t actually management. It’s like bugs in your working system in order for you like a pc terminology for it. And it was like going via doing the work of the EMDR, you’re like altering the material again to one thing clean. We will return to that rug instance the place the rug was all bunched up and we’re like smoothing out the rug. And now when one thing comes up that was an actual set off or one thing that will, you’d have like this unavoidable response that you just had no management over, it’s not there, it’s simply not even a set off. You continue to have the reminiscence of the factor, however it’s not lit up anymore. And I feel that was so profound for me of just like the expertise of EMDR, of like how a lot it modified the material of my precise being.

(27:58)
Like I felt like I turned just like the model of myself. I used to be at all times meant to be via going via that work. And so it makes a variety of sense. This care that’s taken all through the method, particularly at first, as a result of I’ve had buddies inform me – oh why, when – I’ve despatched buddies to EMDR and so they’re like why when do I get to do the EMDR? I’m like, let your therapist do these actually vital items in the beginning as a result of they’ll aid you get a greater lead to the long run. So I feel it’s fascinating the way it

Susie Morgan (28:32):

Works. There’s so many items that you just simply mentioned which are so vital that I wanna nearly give the again of the home understanding of a bit. Please, please. The, the why. In order that authentic query you requested of like, effectively, how have you learnt for those who’re in the fitting place together with your therapist? Yeah. And I feel there’s that bigger query of like, are you doing a remedy that truly modifications the way in which the nervous system is holding the reminiscences? And, so that you’re re transforming that entire factor so that you robotically reply otherwise. It’s not that handbook management, however whenever you’re looking for out an EMDR therapist, whether or not or not they take this, this primary like part of the work actually critically is a very massive part for deciding whether or not or not you’re in the fitting place.

Betty Rocker (29:22):

Mm.

Susie Morgan (29:22):

And oftentimes, this isn’t the fault of the therapist, it’s the fault of the way it’s historically been educated the place actually it’s such as you do form of like this, this fast, this fast intro and you then simply bounce into, to processing trauma reminiscences. However that’s the place we now have individuals having actually unhealthy experiences. And the primary motive is as a result of individuals, individuals aren’t essentially prepared for that but. And or the, the therapist doesn’t essentially have the, the readiness of getting a very good remedy plan in place with a purpose to know why we’re gonna begin right here and go there and go there. And so after I was doing all of these early, form of items of labor with you, it’s, it’s truly there, it’s twofold. One is, I truly, I’m, I’m purposefully mapping, I’m purposefully providing you with instruments that matter to your expertise of being within the work, however I’m additionally waiting for very, very key points that point out your mind is prepared to do that, that your nervous system can do sure issues.

(30:28)
And so every little thing I’m doing has a twin objective. It’s each getting you prepared, constructing that readiness if I have to do extra of one thing, but in addition seeing what’s there and seeing whether or not or not that that further form of prep work is prepared. After which the opposite piece, and that is, that is simply because I need to point out it, that piece about that grownup, like strongest wisest self being there for little you, that’s the core key function to attachment restore. It’s creating out that grownup self to present little you what nobody else has been capable of give us totally and to attract from the fashions of those that have perhaps in items and issues like that. However in the end, repairing the attachment system is understanding deep down that you just’ve obtained you and that you just’ve

Betty Rocker (31:19):

Obtained you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so Properly, that’s so effectively mentioned. And, and this work is so profound as a result of I feel, our tradition just isn’t alone in being one which has a variety of addictive compulsive kind of points, however it actually has so many, and, and I feel this have to be one thing that presents in, in your apply so typically is dependancy kind of labor. Mm-hmm . Like so many individuals, I imply, we now have dependancy to buying, to alcohol, to medicine, to intercourse, to, how, I don’t know, so many various issues. So I might think about that EMDR is basically useful in supporting the discount of addictive conduct. And and the way does it do this particularly? I,

Susie Morgan (32:07):

Properly, one of the vital latest form of vital items of form of connecting the dots that’s been made got here via the ACEs research. And I’m unsure for those who or your listeners are conversant in it, however it’s the hostile Childhood Experiences research. And like EMDR, it’s truly been round for nearly as a lot time, however it didn’t actually get any press till extra just lately. However it’s a very primary research that has simply been carried out on huge hoards of individuals at this level. And it’s even, replicated by the, the CDC at this level. So we’re capable of see it’s true throughout populations that early childhood hostile experiences, even when they occur simply as soon as, they create a vulnerability within the nervous system to develop psychological well being points, to develop bodily well being points and to develop addictions. And so, and it’s exponentially extra highly effective than anybody would ever assume.

(33:03)
And so addictions is one thing that we very a lot can see. Early childhood trauma actually potentiates that vulnerability to dependancy later. And what’s attention-grabbing when it comes to EMDR remedy and trauma reminiscence networks and all of that’s this concept that dependancy has actually two elements which are occurring with reminiscence networks. One is the trauma is a driver, in order that that ache goes to drive you to the factor that eases the ache. The opposite factor although, is the pull of the dependancy. And you’ll even have maladaptively linked optimistic reminiscences which are the, the important thing to the mind persevering with to hunt the excessive or the necessity being met by this addictive conduct or substance, even when there’s tons and tons of penalties, or for those who by no means obtain that prime to that diploma. Once more,

Betty Rocker (33:58):

I nearly perceive what you imply by optimistic maladaptive. It’s nearly prefer it, are you able to simply make clear that somewhat bit extra? Yeah,

Susie Morgan (34:06):

Yeah, completely. So the instance I realized from the one who I first realized this from, was an instance of the, you already know, a somewhat, somewhat boy who had an abusive father. And his dad was actually, actually into enjoying playing cards, was actually into poker. And and afterward, this man has now’s now presenting in remedy as a result of he has a playing dependancy. He’s misplaced his home, he’s misplaced his household, he’s misplaced every little thing. So we’re gonna assume, okay, effectively, he realized about, he realized about playing from little, in order that’s simply what he grew as much as do, proper? Like, it’s that easy, however it’s not, the place it truly solidified in his mind was, so keep in mind he has this trauma of neglect and, and abuse from his dad. Properly, at some point, you already know, one of many guys isn’t there for the poker sport. So dad invitations his son to the poker desk that’s the place his mind hastily felt liked. His mind hastily felt seen and included and observed by his dad. And fireworks go off within the mind. And it’s like that soldering of one thing the place it’s identical to, Ooh, poker equals I’m liked, I’m lovable. And so from then on, doesn’t matter how a lot he loses, doesn’t matter all the implications, the mind doesn’t even like take note of any of that information. It’s coming, however it doesn’t matter. He retains looking for that must be met on the poker desk at no matter price.

Betty Rocker (35:45):

Obtained it. Obtained it. That’s an important instance, proper? That made a lot sense. You may see how addictions can type of so many differing types due to the complexity of that layer, these layers collectively. Like that’s, and that have to be very onerous to unwind for individuals due to what a robust urge that’s, like at a deep core degree to be liked, to be belong. These are deep human wants that all of us have, and once they’re not met, after we’re youthful, after which they’ve these layers on high of them, and we’re simply on the market attempting to be grownups, coping with life and all of our many duties and, and repeating outdated patterns time and again and never understanding why, as an example. So who wants EMDR? Who can be a very good candidate for EMDR, would you say? I imply, we’ve talked about a variety of issues, however I feel lots of people listening are figuring out sure issues in what we’re speaking about. So let’s simply make it plain and easy. Like who can be a very good candidate?

Susie Morgan (36:46):

I suppose there’s somebody on the market who wouldn’t, however I haven’t met them. And, I imply, there are these individuals who actually grew up with that actually strong early attachment expertise. Their wants had been met. And, and I’ve seen these purchasers are available as a result of that they had one single actually unhealthy t like massive T trauma, and but their stuff resolves like that. Like that’s the place you see this like magic occur. Prefer it’s, it may be a matter of two periods and one thing horrific, identical to is is totally reprocessed by the nervous system

Betty Rocker (37:24):

As a result of they’ve a sturdy and safe attachment type and safety in themselves to start out with. Their basis is, is basically sturdy. After which from there, therapeutic is less complicated, I suppose you’d say, proper?

Susie Morgan (37:37):

Sure. In order that they’re confronted with traumas, they’re confronted with various things, and their mind is like, oh, I’ve obtained this. And it, and it, it, you already know, it takes that, that adaptive info reminiscence community and simply wraps it round and it’s identical to, yep. Like I realized from that. Now it’s over and off you go. Hmm. So there are individuals on the market who’re like that, they’re simply extra uncommon.

(38:00)
Hmm. The remainder of us , and I say that together with myself, have much more vulnerability to those various things. And so when somebody is saying, you already know, I’ve simply at all times been anxious, or I’ve simply at all times had these bouts of melancholy, that kind of factor, or this self-doubt, this self-confidence difficulty the place I’m not reaching for that subsequent degree at work, or I’m not stepping out of, you already know, like I, I do know I ought to be capable of do that, however I, however I’m, I’m stopping myself. I’m, I’m insecure, or I’m, you already know, repeating these relationship patterns or that kind of factor. Mm-hmm. All of this stuff are issues that make you a very good candidate to step into an EMDR therapist’s workplace. Mm mm Then the distinction is whether or not or not that EMDR therapist has eyes to see the way to deal with you. Have they carried out ample coaching in having the ability to actually, actually like, have that curiosity to, to have a look at what, what’s all this related to? The place did this, this studying happen that’s now left you in a sample of, you already know, responding on this approach? What are all these reminiscence networks? And is your mind able to do the precise trauma reminiscence reprocessing, or do we have to do a bunch of fro entrance loading in order that we will get there? It’s oftentimes not the case that somebody can’t do EMDR remedy. It simply means somebody may have to do some extra subtle issues to get their mind prepared for it.

Betty Rocker (39:30):

You’ve some fairly wonderful sources for individuals at completely different ranges with regards to EMDR. One factor that you’ve is, I keep in mind the EMDR readiness course, which helps individuals like me work out whether or not we’re prepared or how, clarify that for me, for those who don’t thoughts.

Susie Morgan (39:50):

So this course has been round for quite a few years, and it’s truly, I might attribute, the triggering of making that course to you truly, oh, cease . As a result of at some point you sat down with me and also you mentioned, Susie, I’m referring individuals out to EMDR remedy on a regular basis now, and so they’re not getting, from their remedy course of what I’m getting with you. And at that time, it precipitated me to self-reflect and say, am I truly doing one thing otherwise? Hmm. And, and I found out I used to be, and it wasn’t simply because I’m good, it was often because I used to be actually hungry to study and insecure. Truly, my very own insecurities had been in there the place I used to be like, I have to study extra, I have to study extra. I have to study extra. So I had, I had gone to so many various trainings by so many various consultants within the discipline, however then my, my power actually is synthesizing issues collectively, curating and synthesizing these supplies right into a system primarily.

(40:48)
And so through the years, there’s been a technique that I’ve developed that began with that course and actually beginning to actually like, form of, conceptualize it and make it extra concrete that’s now developed out into some broader coaching packages that I can clarify. However, however the readiness course remains to be accessible. It’s one thing that you are able to do by yourself. It’s nearly like a, a digital like workbook. And it takes you thru the readiness course of. So a variety of the steps that you just and I did collectively when it comes to these, these instruments and people, these abilities that you just developed in the beginning, beginning to actually map out these trauma reminiscence networks so as to actually do some work by yourself and resolve does this EMDR remedy factor is smart for me? Hmm. The opposite factor is that may be carried out alongside a therapist, of their course of with you.

(41:40)
For lots of people, it’s actually useful to have the assist of a therapist whereas they’re doing these processes. And the primary module of that course says takes you thru some questionnaire that say like, ought to, do you have to do that alone or not? Hmm. And so it, it may possibly aid you assume via that course of. The opposite factor that’s now accessible, that’s additionally on the self-help web page of my web site, which is precisionemdr.com. So for those who go to the self-help web page, you’ll see two various things. One is that readiness course, however one can also be a free 45 minute course that truly explains this, this tree idea that we’ve been speaking about. Cool. So that you’re capable of visualize the trauma reminiscence networks, that adaptive info mild tree of knowledge, in order that for those who begin EMDR remedy, you’re getting into actually understanding that entire formulation of it. And it goes extra into what processing seems like, that kind of factor and what’s occurring within the mind throughout that. So, so that’s free to only check out, there’s, no strings. Yeah.

Betty Rocker (42:45):

That’s a tremendous reward. And what a tremendous useful resource as effectively. After which I feel you might be additionally now, such as you’ve mentioned, you’ve developed your methodology, you’re now coaching different therapists at completely different, completely different ranges from the graduate degree to all the way in which to individuals who’ve been training for a very long time. Is that what you had been telling me? That’s wonderful. What, what does that contain?

Susie Morgan (43:08):

So there’s two main items. One is we now have an EMDRIA accredited primary coaching, which they’re the bigwigs. They, they, they take you thru a reasonably rigorous course of whenever you’re creating a program to say, does it, you already know, test all of the packing containers. And so we checked all of the packing containers and what was actually thrilling is, I used to be accredited to have the ability to, to actually use all of this readiness and the goal sequencing, which is the, the why you do, which, which trauma reminiscence first, that kind of factor. In addition to all of those attachment items into our primary coaching program. After which we now have additionally a sophisticated a set of programs. So it’s truly a complete of 33 hours, half one and half two. However half one truly goes via all of this readiness and, and fills within the gaps of what hasn’t been there in a variety of that conventional coaching that almost all therapists have gone via. After which half two goes into all of this fancy footwork round how can we restore the attachment system? How can we deal with these addictions? And that sparkle that these maladaptively linked reminiscences can have and all of that. So it’s, it’s a very strong superior course that individuals can undergo

Betty Rocker (44:20):

A lot to know, so vital to be a well-trained practitioner and for us as individuals looking for remedy to know as a lot as we will about this in order that we will go into it eyes open, looking for this care. And in addition, you already know, discern being discerning, I suppose, about what we’re gonna obtain. I feel that’s, that’s so vital. Properly, you’ve shared your, web site with us and we will additionally observe you on social media, appropriate. Wanna say your, your deal with,

Susie Morgan (44:55):

It’s @PrecisionEMDR. So it’s precisionEMDR all over the place. So whether or not that’s the web site or the deal with on Instagram or Fb, that’s, that’s the place you’ll find me and discover out what we’re doing. ’trigger I, it’s not simply me, however I even have gathered an exceptional staff of consultants. It’s truly one of many distinctive items of our program is everybody who’s a advisor on our coaching staff is an knowledgeable in EMDR, in addition to oftentimes a specialty space or integration with one other remedy mannequin. So, so we will all be discovered there and it’s, it’s actually hopefully going to be an increasing number of a sturdy useful resource for referral sources and all of that for individuals all around the, all around the nation. As a result of we now have people who find themselves going via our trainings who’re from everywhere.

Betty Rocker (45:42):

That’s great and great to consider all the people who find themselves probably looking for EMDR or perhaps didn’t understand how useful EMDR might be for them. And now we’ll have a further useful resource to come back to for details about it, for looking for a practitioner for it, or practitioner looking for extra coaching for it. It’s actually great what you might be creating. And thanks for all of the work that you just do on this world to make it a greater place. We respect you a lot. So thanks. Thanks a lot for approaching and speaking to us at this time and sharing all of this actually priceless info and insights. And thanks for every little thing you’ve carried out for me as effectively. Like, I might not be this model of the Betty Rocker with out you and your entire nice work. So all of you guys listening, I’m so glad that you just had an opportunity to fulfill Susie, ’trigger she’s simply unimaginable and I hope you look her up and lookup her work. And Susie, is there any, like, final phrases, something you wanna go away with us that I didn’t ask or something you wanna say?

Susie Morgan (46:37):

Actually, it’s simply wanting to specific my gratefulness for the chance to come back in right here and discuss this and, and the, the, the platform that you’re utilizing throughout the board to assist, particularly ladies of their well being on all points of issues. And EMDR is one thing that, such as you mentioned, it’s a buzzword on the market. Individuals discuss it, however they oftentimes don’t know sufficient about it to know the way it may truly connect with them, the way it may truly be, actually perhaps much more powerfully carried out if it’s one thing that that they had a, you already know, eh, expertise with earlier than. Issues like that. So I’m simply actually grateful that this was vital to you to do and, and simply thanks for having me.

Betty Rocker (47:22):

Yay. Properly, we sit up for speaking to you once more very quickly. And, thanks guys a lot for listening. You could find all the hyperlinks and sources over on the present notes web page for this podcast episode, in addition to Susie’s hyperlinks that she’s already shared. So sit up for speaking to you once more. Until subsequent time, I’m Betty Rocker, and you might be so superior, so flawsome and wonderful.